Ep. 516 Workers' Comp Rate Increases On the Way with Margaret Hartmann: Part 2

In the second episode of a three-part series, President David Garcia continues his discussion with Margaret Hartmann, Sr. VP and Chief Marketing Officer with BHHC, and explains how companies can mitigate cumulative trauma claims in light of the WCIRB’s recent 11.2% recommended rate increase.

Show Notes: Berkshire Hathaway Homestate Companies, ⁠Subscribe to Rancho Mesa's Newsletter⁠

Host: David Garcia

Guest: ⁠⁠Margaret Hartmann⁠

Producer/Editor: ⁠Jadyn Brandt

Music: "Home" by JHS Pedals, “Breaking News Intro” by nem0production

© Copyright 2025. Rancho Mesa Insurance Services, Inc. All rights reserved.

Transcript

David Garcia: Hi, you're listening to Rancho Mesa's Studio One podcast, where each week we break down complex insurance and safety topics to help your businesses thrive. I'm your host, Dave Garcia, thanks for joining us.

So today, with the WCARB's recent announcement of a 11.2% recommended rate increase in workers' compensation, it definitely feels to me like the workers' compensation marketplace in California is about to change and with that in mind, we've invited Margaret Hartman, the Senior Vice President, Chief Marketing Officer at Berkshire, Hathaway Homestate Companies, which's one of the largest specialty workers' compensation carriers in California, to give us some insights as to how this recommendation came about, what are the areas that are driving this increase and what employers can do to try and mitigate the rate increases.

Hi Margaret, welcome back to Studio One. Thanks for joining me today.

Margaret Hartman: Thanks for having me.

DG: I know that Berkshire Hathaway, we've worked with you guys for any number of years. We have a tremendously strong relationship so I'm very familiar with a lot of the services that you're able to provide policy holders, but are you guys looking at taking any targeted steps to help manage this growing impact of CT claims as a company?

MH: Yeah, I'm glad you asked. We are taking this very seriously and we have taken some proactive steps here, including you know we have a task force a little committee that we’ve set up internally within our claims teams to try and manage some of these claims and have strategies for, you know, we want to make sure that we make decisions on these quickly, ones that are legitimate that we’re getting people treated quickly and though the system so that we can get them back to health and back to work as quickly as possible.

DG: You know, that's a really, really smart idea. I know you guys did the same thing during COVID, when you started to see COVID claims, you kind of bunched those into a unit because the repetitiveness of the type of claim led to expertise in managing the claim.

MH: Right.

DG: Yeah. That's a, that's, that's awesome. I'm glad to hear you're doing that.

MH: Yeah, so we've, you know, we've improved our tracking, like our CT tracking approach implemented some analytics on that so we can dig deeper on some of the doctors that we're seeing, some of the players in the CT space. We ramped up our training around the compensability decisions involved, more managers in the process. We've just, we've made a lot of targeted changes, including using data analytics again and identifying the players in that CT space. And then we really kind of launched a collaborative approach on how we're managing these claims. So along with our claims professionals and consolidating cases with specific claims professionals, we also have specialty teams that are pretty unique, including our medical excellence team, which is headed by our medical director, Dr. Lynn, who's an occupational health specialist. So she's developed some strategies for helping us deal with these. We have a roundtable approach that we've now implemented for some of these CT claims.

We also have a contribution team which is kind of unique as well. So, as I mentioned, a lot of these, since they happen over a span of time, it often, you know, somebody may work for multiple employers and we want to make sure that our policyholders are only paying for their fair share of those claims. So we have a contribution teams that helps us manage those third party recoveries and get those dollars back if somebody else is responsible for a portion of those claims. We also have in-house council and a very robust special investigation unit, for when we do start to see some of those like mass layoff type filings of CT claims, we'll get our special investigations unit involved in those as well.

DG: Is that unit also involved with I guess the slang word would be capping you know by attorneys?

MH: Yes.

DG: Can you explain what capping is and maybe how that hurts the system if you're the employer or the insurance carrier?

MH: Right well there's been several really, really high profile cases of capping here in California where people are actually going out and trying to that people to come in and get medical treatment, signing them up, say you have a claim and we'll send you in to see these doctors. I mean, to the point where some of them are really egregious, like people were having surgeries that they didn't need just so that they could get paid and then they're getting paid for that. So our special investigation unit is very involved in those types of cases. Those are, of course, very, very extreme cases, but we want to make sure that they're involved. And so when we start spotting some of these trends and behaviors and things, we will definitely bring them into the loop. And they work with the local district attorney's offices. A lot of them have very good relationships with the DA's offices so that we can move some of these cases forward and make sure that there's no abuse there. And then, you know, all of that is kind of what we're doing after the fact. But probably the most important thing, and I'm going to talk about this again when we talk about what employers can do, is getting loss control involved early on. I think our loss control specialists are very well versed in trying to identify these possible CT exposures that may occur in the workplace. And we may not be able to eliminate them all, but we can reduce the risk often.

DG: Well that's great. So let's switch gears now and start talking about what would you recommend employers do to try to mitigate this risk.

MH: Well prevention starts at the workplace level of course so one of the most effective things employers can do is foster early reporting, open communication, many CT claims stem from issues that were never reported or addressed early If somebody is having problems with their wrists, for example, because they're doing, you know, repetitive typing, we can get an ergonomic eval and get somebody out there to help prevent that injury from progressing because now we're going to have the right equipment in place for them to be able to do the job safer. And often some of these modifications are not expensive to do.

DG: And that ergonomic evaluation is something that your loss control department can assist with?

MH: They can assist with it. We also have a kind of a do -it -yourself app. Okay. You know, there's a lot of them out there. I mean, the nice thing for employers right now is that there are so many safety resources before you had to go through some library and now you can kind of Google YouTube videos and get them from anywhere.

DG: Right.

MH: So I'd say, you know, stay informed, stay engaged in what kind of preventative measures are out there. And then just stay tuned into what's going on with your workforce as well. Strong return to work programs also can help with that as well. I want to highlight another thing that, you know, we have nurse triage that's available for employers. So nurse triage programs where the injury gets reported to a nurse and they help to triage that injury, get them to the right medical provider network doctor and get people in appropriate treatment right away. That can also really help with early reporting.

Also, that these nurses take a pretty detailed medical history. So that can really go a long way to in helping like set the groundwork for the defense of a claim. If say the specific injury you talked about, sometimes a specific injury, then turns into a CT, then turns into multiple body parts, we'll have a detailed and recorded statement from the nurse with a medical history of the injured worker. So a lot of times we can use that to help defend against that spread. Now, you know, it was a risk, but now it's an elbow and a shoulder and a neck.

DG: Yeah, you know, big, big proponent of nurse triage. I just think it's you guys implemented that now I don't know several years ago and in just with our clients that utilize it we've seen a significant decrease in claims kind of growing arms and legs because it's make that phone call at the initial time the injury occurs. This is of course assuming a non -life -threatening type of injury. It's recorded as you said it's a very thorough, you know, evaluation by a nurse on the other end, but it is recorded. And then the nurses then report the claim into your claims department. So there's really hardly any lag time in reporting the claim. And then it gives your claims people an opportunity to get it from the jump. I just think that's a, if you're an employer out there and you're not asking your current carriers, if they have this availability you may consider moving to a carrier, like a Berkshire Hathaway, that does provide this service because it comes to you at no cost. Berkshire absorbs this cost and it's just a way of you know treating your employees better. They feel like you really care because you're getting immediate assistance right away. You know it also eliminates the drive time between wherever the injury occurred and whatever facility you're taking them to be seen. If it's not an urgent situation then they're just sitting in an urgent care waiting room and it's not very productive. So you know we've seen that the claim handled better and we've seen productivity have less of an impact negatively for our clients that use it. So I think nurse triage is really something that everybody should be using regularly.

MH: Yeah, I Agreed.

DG: What other things Margaret?

MH: Again, I'm going to highlight loss control, you know, loss control specialists can help develop a plan to address some of the CT exposures that that may occur in the workplace. Some wellness programs and I know you guys implemented that mobility stretch program for landscapers. That is also very helpful if somebody's already, you know, stretched and they're loose and it can help prevent injuries. And if they're doing that consistently, it can also help prevent a CT claim.

DG: Yeah, yeah, thanks for bringing that up. We did, you know, we worked closely with your team to identify, you know, what is the predominant type of injury a landscaper might have. We found it to be lower back. It looked for the root cause of what it's what were they doing in those situations. Then identified a stretching program that helped mitigate that when they were going to be doing whatever that procedure in the work day entailed. And you know, I think when we do that, whether it's a broker, the carrier, the combination of the broker and the carrier, and then the employer, the worker feels like they matter, that somebody actually cares about them.

And you know, most people, that's all they're really looking for. It's like I want to provide a living for my family. I want to go to a work environment that I feel safe, that I feel valued. And so we're going to switch just a little bit about culture too. Do you find culture, you know, being a part of this that an employer can, you know, I mean, there's so many things, aging workforce.

So let's hold off on culture. Talk to me about aging workforce. I'm in that category. I'm 67 years

old. I was hoping to skip it, but we really need to talk about it. So is there any plan, you know, that you think an employer can do for handling the aging workforce like me?

MH: Well, again, I just think it has to be acknowledged and addressed. So, you know, Bureau of Labor Statistics is saying employees age 65 or older has grown 117 % in the last 20 years. So people are just staying in the workforce-

MH: -A lot longer. And, you know, I think employers just need to be cognizant of that and that there may be work modifications that can and should be done to accommodate some of these workers just to keep them also protected.

DG: Yeah.

MH: Often we will see CT claims and it's kind of the retirement claim after a prolonged, you know, like 10 year of doing heavy lifting, right? If it is some of these workers, you know, they're great employees. And that's why people keep them on and they want to continue to contribute. And I think that there are some ways that you can strategize on keeping them safe. So and I, I'm going to highlight loss control and reaching out to them or some of some guidance on some of those plans. And then, if there is going to be a pending layoff, there's some things that can be done in advance to prepare as well. So again, I think the partnership between employer and carrier, just open communication and knowing what's going on early on, we can help. We can't eliminate all of the exposure, but we can help mitigate some of it.

DG: Yeah, we get asked this question a lot prior to a layoff or even just during the regular work week is it helpful to have anybody acknowledge sign something saying I don't presently have an injury you know so they're going to be laid off and then you say great are you know you're okay yes would you mind acknowledging that is that just a pipe dream or is that something that maybe an employer should think about doing does it help at all if they have that document?

MH: I think it certainly can help and I think that there's you know the other side will argue well then are you putting it in their mind that you know now they've had a claim. I think there's ways to ask those questions that are you know are still legitimate we don't want to certainly be you know sneaky in the way we're asking it but we do want We do want to ask, is there anything we could do to make the workplace safer? How do you feel about the things that we have in place to keep you safe? Maybe having some of those questions. There are some ways that I think it does help if you can set that groundwork early on. Again, you might not be able to completely defend any of these cases, but it can just be one more thing. Look, we do ask how people feel at the end of their shifts, how people feel about our ability to keep them safe, and there was no issues at all until six months post layoff, and now all of a sudden we're getting this litigation. But all along they were saying that everything was okay. So I think it can help, and again, it's about really developing the right strategy and talking to our loss control professionals about how to go about doing that. That kind of tees up culture in a way, you know, the empathy, the care, all of those types of things. So, do you think that the culture of an organization can really impact the number of CT claims a business might have?

MH: I think it's probably the best way to impact the number of CT claims. You know, some of the things you were saying earlier about employees feeling heard and valued and safe, you know, physically and emotionally, you know, culture plays this huge role because those employees are likely to report issues early. And they're also not likely to litigate because they feel angry or disenfranchised or because they've been treated unfairly. So I think it's probably the most impactful thing that you can do is to have that really good culture. And on the other hand, we see environments where morale is very low and the culture's not good. And employees will find a way to retaliate on that. So it's often we'll see like a group of CT claims and they'll all be in one department or one unit or one team or reporting to one supervisor.

So those issues about leadership in your organization, you know, have to be addressed. And so yes, I think culture isn't just like a nice to have, it's actually a risk management tool.

DG: Yeah, and it's, you know, it's not to the point where you have to say, you know, the inmates are running the asylum kind of thing, it's like, no, but you know, it's the golden rule, right? Treat others that you'd like to be treated. So I think if you're, you know, seeing things or observing things that you don't feel are right, you need to do something to correct it. And I think that feedback to ask those questions like, is there anything else we could do or can be doing to make your job better, safer, more productive, things like that. It's an overused term, culture, you know, like what does that really mean? But boy, I'll tell you, I'm sure you've seen this, when you walk into certain businesses, within five minutes, you can see that on the good or bad culture scale, you're like, this is an energy company, these people are engaged, these people are happy to be here, they're working well, and you can walk into a company like, I don't think anybody wants to be here. It seems very punitive or something.

So I think it's a really good measure for us. And maybe another transition point here is to say, hey, do you think it's now time, given the changes that we see coming in the marketplace, that employers should really fully audit their safety plans, their cultures, and be looking for areas to improve it? Do you think that would be step one for a lot of companies out there right now?

MH: 100%. I mean, it's a best practice anyway to be constantly looking and evaluating and enhancing your safety program. But now with what we're seeing in the market and appending rate increase, it's really actually critical. And I think what you said about, you know, culture to wrap that up, you know, you can tell and a company has a really good safety culture. And if you want to help improve it, again, I'm going to make a pitch for loss control and our loss control especially, they do a lot of training on safety culture, train the trainers, training managers and lead people to do that. Because those are the key people within the organization. You know, you might say it at the top, but if it's not happening at the management level, it's probably not happening, and they have a lot of ideas. One of the strategies, as an example, that was mentioned to me was we had an employer that they had one of their lead people that was a very long-term employee that was bilingual. They have Spanish-speaking workforce, and he volunteered as part of his leadership responsibilities to be accountable for the work comp claims. If there was a work comp claim, he was kind of the go-to that they could come and ask questions on what to do, who to go to, how to report. And having that be somebody that was actually out there that was a worker on the floor made a huge impact with that company where they were having a problem with late reporting. So, that's just one little example of what an employer might do.

DG: Yeah, and there's, you know, a company safety program, it's like an octopus. It has a lot of different arms to it. You could be looking for root causes of injuries, what safety trainings are you providing to attend any workshops. If you have a claim or you engage, as you mentioned earlier, with a return to work program, are you reporting the claims timely? How are you investigating the claims you're looking for, hey an injury occurred, we should do an accident investigation and then use that as a training with other employees So that we don't have that reoccurrence of that issue because we've now trained for it benchmarking themselves against industry peers. How am I doing against other landscapers or whoever it happens to be I probably any one of those things you can spend a lot of time on but you need to tackle them You know those are all things and there's the list can kind of go on and on. Are there any one in particular that stands out to you? Or is that just-

MH: Well, you know, I'd say all of the above I mean I think everything you mentioned is really important and helping to manage claims costs and have a good safety culture and you know as I said before safety resources are readily available everywhere yeah and even if you don't you If you're a small employer and you say, "Well, I don't have a loss control consultant that's coming out," I mean, almost all carriers have safety centers, websites, and all sorts of tools and resources that can help keep employees safe.

And we haven't talked yet about return to work programs. And with indemnity payments on the rise, and I recently saw a study by another large multi-line carrier, but they write a lot of work with composition here in California, and they were noticing that disability days are very much on the rise. So it's important to get employees back to work as quickly as possible. And some employers don't have the ability to modify jobs, so there's no modified work available.

We have a transitional work program so we can get people back to work at local nonprofits. It gets employees back to some kind of modified duty, feeling like they're doing something to add value and help get them back on the path to recovery. So I would encourage a return to work program for all employers, especially given that we're seeing those increases and wages are continuing to go up too. So temporary disabilities tied to state average weekly wage, so we've seen some pretty big increases the past couple of years.

DG: Yeah, and you know, we've been big proponents of that and utilized your resources, whether it's, as you mentioned, kind of the re-employability side of your business where you do put them out into nonprofits or your other program, Shakley, which actually sends the work to their house.

MH: Right.

DG: So they don't even have to leave their house if that was the need. And we've just seen tremendous improvement in returning them back to their customary job.

And it also, just for employers out there, if you’re able to continue any of the wage during that period of time, any portion of it, it comes off of that temporary disability benefit so, your wages that you’re going to pay that person this work does not accumulate to go towards your experience modification. So, only the actual temporary disability payment that the carrier is making on behalf of you go into that calculation. So, you know, for our clients, they're very aware of that, they understand, you know, how many dollars of claim value is equal to one point of claim, and they realize, well, if I just pay this person X, I've reduced my experience modification by one, three, five points. So, there's just a lot of benefit to doing it. So I would definitely encourage you to take a look at that. Make sure that your place in your business with a carrier like Berkshire Hathaway that offers those tools.

Margaret, listen, I can't thank you enough for joining me today in StudioOne and kind of sharing your insights to this changing worker compensation marketplace. And thank you all for joining me today in StudioOne. If you found this information useful, you can subscribe to our podcast channel, which is StudioOne, all one word, and it can be found on literally all the podcast applications. So thank you again for your time. Goodbye for now.