Ep. 533 Navigating Risk: A Holistic Approach to Mechanical Trades Safety with UFG

Account Executive Matt Gorham sits down with Gary Clevenger, VP of Risk Control at UFG Insurance, to discuss a consultative approach to risk management in the mechanical trades. They cover how a holistic risk assessment, strong partnerships, and modern tools like the DOS framework can elevate your safety and insurance strategies.

Show Notes: UFG Insurance, ⁠Subscribe to Rancho Mesa's Newsletter⁠

Director/Host: Matt Gorham

Guest: Gary Clevenger⁠

Producer/Editor: ⁠Megan Lockhart⁠

Music: "Home" by JHS Pedals, “Breaking News Intro” by nem0production

© Copyright 2025. Rancho Mesa Insurance Services, Inc. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Matt Gorham: You're listening to Rancho Mesa's StudioOne™ podcast, where each week we break down complex insurance and safety topics to help your business thrive. I'm your host, Matt Gorham, and I'm joined by Gary Clevenger, Vice President of Risk Control with UFG. Gary, welcome to the show.

Gary Clevenger: Thanks, Matt. Glad I'm here. Appreciate it.

MG: Yep. Happy to have you here. So, you know, Gary, I wanted to start a little bit more about your background to give listeners a chance to understand where you're coming from. Tell us about your history in the mechanical trades and how you made your way to being VP of Risk Control for UFG.

GC: Well like everyone, I didn't start out to be the Vice President of Risk Control, but life will take you down many paths. Way back 25 years ago, I had the opportunity to be the risk manager for a Sheet Metal Contractor Association, SMACNA. So inside of that role, I got to be exposed to the mechanical trades, the roofing trades, they all, all the artisan contractors, and they all seemed to intertwine, and I would see them on projects. So I went to work for an international carrier, and in that space, I was able to work on programs related to the mechanical trades and the sheet metal trades. So Mechanical Contractors Association, state and local chapters, also got to work with some of the largest mechanical contractors in the U.S. and world, quite frankly. So just had a lot of exposure to the mechanicals and the sheet metals and took that experience and knowledge over the years and just expanded it as I went and really just find it as an area that I have a lot of interest in, a lot of experience with and something I'm passionate about is making sure that they continue to improve and that continues that improvement mantra within that group.

MG: It's fantastic. I mean, exhaustive, if not, you know, extensive certainly, which seems like it would give you a really unique perspective to approach the mechanical trades in particular and artisan trades more broadly, but mechanical trades, which would just give you some really valuable insights to how the mechanical trades operate and where you can provide more value to them in strengthening their safety program.

GC: Yeah, no, you're exactly right. We got to see so many different contractors' different ways of doing business, the good, bad, and the ugly, if you will. But with that, you know, you also had a chance to really learn and take what's good from many different contractors and bring it together to say, "What would the perfect mechanical contractor look like if you could put one together, like the 6-million-dollar man back in the day. What's that contractor look like?”

And there's a lot of commonalities. And so take the best out of those and bring that to the table for them to review and see where they can plug it into their operations.

MG: Yeah, that's fantastic. And now you've told me that UFG's approach to risk assessment, it's not traditional, but more of a service designed to support contractors. What do you mean by that?

GC: So I'm glad you asked you know, the old term transactional versus conversational or consultative. So, the old way of doing risk control seemed to be transactional. You would go out, have a conversation, do the quasi-inspection checklist, and, you know, get your information and go. We're really striving to be consultative, have the conversation, get to know the customer, find out their pain points, you know, look at the threat landscape, a holistic risk management type approach. So really trying to dig deeper into everything from their workforce resiliency to their processes, their process flow, what exposure they have in a given market or within the artisan trades, they are specialty. So if they're doing data centers, how can we help versus maybe service or a new install? So a lot of different components to it, but really trying to be consultative is a nice term in doing a total risk assessment with a holistic approach.

MG: Yeah, you just mentioned a phrase that, you know, when we first spoke really stuck out to me and you use it here again, just so fluently: risk landscape. Where do you first encounter that concept and how does that guide your team's work?

GC: Well, it wasn't a—when I say the concept, you know we coined the phrase the threat landscape or the risk landscape because it is holistic. You know, you can focus on safety or you can focus on compliance or the insurance side, but really they all dovetail together. So making sure that the contractor is aware that, you know, what they do on a job site that may cause a work comp claim can also impact them on the general liability side or that, hey, what penetrates the umbrella the most are auto accidents. So are you taking care of your drivers? That contractors in place, their job is to, is to build a constructor or install something, not manage risk or not manage that driver or do that driver training. So we're really trying to help them with those pain points and those threat landscapes out there, whether it be workforce resiliency or, you know, process flow, just the various ways you can engage with them to help them make their businesses better that continuous improvement mantra.

MG: Yeah, and I appreciate that you recognize that, right? their responsibility is building, constructing. That's their primary focus is running their business so they can deliver on the projects and the commitments that they've taken on. And you've also mentioned a couple of times a holistic, consultative process to risk management and the way that you guys are able to work alongside policyholders. How important is it to get collaboration from policyholders and from agency partners to deliver on your objectives and why should policyholders want risk control involved?

GC: Those are great questions. A risk assessment is essentially that opportunity to have an outside individual come in and just give you an assessment of your operations. You have threats to your business, you have safety, you have compliance, you have payroll, you have your workforce, you've got a procurement, you have so many things going on. So having a risk consultant come in or a risk assessment completed by risk control representative, along with the agent, you know, really is valuable or should be a value. That's that value add opportunity to say, Hey, we see hundreds of mechanical contractors or artisan contractors in a given year, let us help you with some of the intelligence we've learned from others and help you plug that into your business where it makes sense. Again, it's not a one-size-fits-all. It's really a, we call it a white glove service or boutique type service. It's like really trying to find, “Hey, where can we make the biggest impact and help you get better and then how does it build upon a stuff? How does it stair step or how can you ladder that into the next success?”

MG: Yeah, you shared with me that there are different areas that you guys will focus on. You just mentioned, of course, that auto being the area that's most likely to lead to an excess loss or an umbrella loss, and there are, again, these different areas that you have the ability to look at risk control and controls from different mechanical contractors and bring them together to support other policy holders. Can you speak a little bit about just some of the different areas that you're looking at, whether that be auto or whether that be work comp when you are doing a risk control survey?

GC: No, that's a great question as well. We broke it down into what I would call minimum standards. So it's really three categories. They focus on fleet and your equipment. They focus on general liability and they focus on workers' compensation. Then inside of those, there's just a number of items that really, if you have those in place, you will be successful. And this is from years of looking at Mechanicals and finding those who are successful and in most cases, what did they have in place that allowed them to protect their company, protect their assets? Everything from driver training, employee training, you know, how did they maintain their vehicles? Did they have subcontractor pre-qualification in place? Do they have the right contracts? Did they have a construction defect or product liability concern? What does their completed operations look like, you know, wellness programs, PPE, is it appropriate for the job? You know, safety training, safety programs, the whole gamut, all broken down together. And it's something that works well. It allows the contractor really more-or-less to do a quick gauge of how they stack up to peer companies across the country, quite frankly.

MG: That's awesome. And one of the things that comes to mind for me is you're talking about the different controls in the different areas here. You've also shared with me a DOS assessment. Walk me through that?

GC: So a DOS is a dangers and opportunities and strengths. It's very similar to a SWOT analysis or a 3P or a Lean Construction or a Kaizen. You think of all those different terms, but DOS, I've landed on that. It's very simple. It's dangers, opportunities and strengths. So just ask an owner or a risk manager what, in your organization, what do you see as your number one danger, your biggest opportunity and strengths? Sometimes they can all be the same.

A good example is that UFG, my risk control group, they're outstanding professionals and that's our greatest strength. They're also very tenured. That could also be a danger because they're, because of their tenure and their level of expertise, technical knowledge, others are trying to poach them or they may be getting close to retirement. It is an opportunity as well because we can lean into that high level of expertise and bring that to the customer and bring it a different level than just the basic risk control compliance type services really going deep in that white glove approach that we talked about earlier.

So, dangers, opportunities, and strengths, an easy one. You can do it in a lot of different scenarios. You can do it by line of coverage. You can do it by job. You can just do it by a company holistically. Think of that threat landscape that all these companies have in front of them and what does that you know reputational risk look like? So what's the threat to your reputation if you've got a great workforce that's healthy and is you know getting the hours they need and not getting hurt, you know, you're going to look a lot different than a company that's pulling up with trucks with dents on them and employees with bandages on their hand or beat up PPE, you know, that's that reputation risk we talk about so a lot of different pieces there inside of the DOS that you can go a lot of paths you can use it for.

MG: Yeah I like the fact that you point out that you could have one factor be both a danger and a strength

GC: Yes.

MG: It really depends on how you want to apply it and approach it and in protecting yourself, but also being able to provide what that benefit is to your policyholders or for you know our listeners for their businesses; how do to leverage the assets that they have and retain them effectively.

GC: Yeah, I would challenge anybody just to do the exercise yourself just in your head. You know, get

or sit down with your team and you know, “Let's go through our dangers, opportunities and strength as an organization and what are they in it?”

And it'll be interesting, your frontline supervisor may have something different than your field leadership versus your, you know, the back room support. So it, everybody's going to have a different danger, opportunity and strength, but holistically bring them all together you'll make you a stronger organization

MG: Yeah, you brought something up that I think is really interesting is who do you would involve in that conversation and it seems like as risk managers it's a conversation that we should be having with our policy holders.

GC: Yes. No, that's a great point. It's really the risk manager the owner of the principles obviously all should be engaged. But the risk manager that's their job inherently the title of you know and just because you're called the risk manager, you may have 16 other hats you wear, but at some point your responsibility is managing the risk of the company. That could be the owner. That could be a designated individual. It could be a committee, but they would be a great exercise. Whoever's in charge of the risk mitigation to try the DOS.

MG: Really good point. I'm curious then, and there may not be a universal answer to this, but curious to hear your thoughts. How often should policyholders be in contact with a risk control consultant?

GC: Oh, that's a great question. So it's interesting, there's some customers that, you know, really two or three visits just really close together where you try to drive home a process or you need some help immediately. And then from there, it's as needed. Whereas others, it's like, I'm more of the approach of, let's make this a two or three-year service strategy. We're not going to get it all done in nine months or six months. Let's string this out. It must be realistic with it. What can we fix or work on? What can we bring to the table that is digestible? And then where can we go throughout the process? Where do you want to be is as a step, we want to go from A to B to C; how do we get there?

So really having a plan and understanding that you have that resource available. If you have an immediate question, “We're going on a job site, we've got crane setup, we don't know if their cribbing is right,” you know, we'll get you on FaceTime, let's use a virtual platform, let's look at it together. We can solve it. Versus, Hey I really need a new fleet safety program that incorporates telematics and, you know, external facing cameras. And I also need to, I'm concerned about negligent trust so I need to work on that type of a policy.”

So it varies depending on the customer and where they're at in their maturity level.

MG: Yeah, there's a lot of really good points in there. You know, one of them is the prioritization element, you know, and breaking things down into a digestible amount and a process that can be implemented on what's most important, what's most pressing, and also meeting policy holders where they are, with what they can practically implement.

And so, Gary, what are some less commonly known areas that risk control can provide support on?

GC: Most risk control professionals and in UFG, they're very broad in their experience and their technical expertise. And so what we've done is we've laid out a very diverse group of professionals, but we also have a diverse group of service offerings. So it may be initially we need compliance training to get us on a job. And then from there, “Hey, how do we bring our accident rates down so we can continue to get these jobs?”

And so to the point of a company may have contracts issues or they've got bad risk transfer in place. Not say bad, but it's lacking a component that could be stronger. Or, hey, really to button down the risk, they should really look at, you know, what kind of site controls do they have in place for subcontractors or what kind of, you know, pre-qualification you have for subcontractors. So the subcontractor pre-qual is a big piece of it, making sure they understand their insurance exclusions and personal use policies, whatever the case may be.

So there's that component of it, but then you also get into we can do training, training can be virtual, it can be on site. There's other resources. We have an ecosystem of vendors called United Vendor Network. These are vendors that do things, everything from telematics to confined space training to safety type training to industrial hygiene, to drug and alcohol testing and helping you write those programs, you know, so you can take in that force multiplier track approach in an ecosystem where maybe they need to tap into one of those to add value to their company or they're lacking that expertise. So it is very diverse in what most risk control can bring to the table.

And I think, I think the fallacy is that it's just an inspection. It should never be just an inspection that risk assessment term is what you should be hearing from most professionals and that's what it is it's an assessment of your risk. What's your threat landscape look like and then what maybe solutions or suggestions can we provide.

MG: Yeah which is fantastic because it—again it's less about bringing somebody out to tell on you right or having them tell on themselves.

GC: That's not the intent, yeah. That's a great, that's not, it's not a “gotcha” moment by any means no it's like, “Hey, tell us what you're doing, show us what you're doing.”

And then we may ask you more questions because we want to learn more because, “Hey, this is the best we've seen,” or it may be, “This is good, but if you want to go to the next step, this is what another company did that would help you tweak it a bit. And, you know, that process improvement could be implemented.”

MG: You also mentioned technology and the ways that we can connect now virtually or the library of resources that's available, where it's not simply a matter of having a schedule time face-to-face or walking around with a clipboard and a checklist, where you can get a lot more out of working with your risk control advisor, with your carrier partner than you could in years past.

I know where ergonomics training is an area that's getting a lot of attention, being able to use predictive modeling to see where injuries are going to take place or where damage is likely to be caused. So it seems like there's a different focus, there's a different approach, but technology is really helping your team develop a philosophy that's working more with policyholders in a consultative approach, rather then, again, a “gotcha” type moment.

GC: Yes, no, then I think the term we like to use is how can we be present? We want to be present with our customer. And you can't always be present in person just because of a variety of logistics that make them into place. So we've stood up a virtual platform and our virtual platform is FaceTime type technology. It's agnostic to any device. So we could talk to an owner in Ohio looking at a job site in Florida and a second job site in Arizona, all in the same in the same afternoon, and really have some great interactions.

If you think about the construction industry, you can go on a job site and see what you need to see via a FaceTime-type video and really be able to provide some valuable insights. As well as training, you can do training virtually. You can do training on-site. You can do training via the various platforms that are out there, the learning management systems that are out there. We have all those as well. Companies should take advantage of that of every one of those if they can. On-site’s great, virtual is good, learning management-type system training, it hits the mark it keeps the training documentation for you they're really well done nowadays so it's just an ever-evolving industry.

You know as well as I do everyone has a cell phone they have a smartphone we look at reels we look at clips we're on FaceTime we're on the various sites often so the more we can incorporate that in along with the technology in the vehicles from the telematics to the cameras to the, you know, cell blocking technology. There are so many ways technologies can be integrated. Now you can overwhelm yourself with that too and you have to be a little bit choosy so you don't just spend money to spend money. But in a lot of cases it's becoming table stakes.

MG: Absolutely. And like you mentioned, everybody has everybody has a cell phone. We've been able to leverage proprietary software here, SafetyOne, that has things like your tailgate topics to be able to make it accessible for people regardless of where they are in the field, but also digital record keeping, have it centralized.

So just helping to bring our clients into the 21st century and making sure that not only is the training being done, but there's continuous record of it to make things easier. And I imagine it's the same philosophy that you guys have followed of accessibility one, but also the follow-up that comes with it to ensure that people are getting something out of it and there's documentation that supports it.

GC: Yeah, I know to your point that the collateral and the resources that Rancho Mesa has are outstanding. They're, they're cutting edge top, you know, state-of-the-art, having that available to customers just brings more opportunities to be successful. Same with your carrier. So if you take your UFG and you marry that up with a Rancho Mesa, all the various technologies available, you can really have a robust platform, maybe more than you need, but you pick and choose what fits and then work with your producer, your agent, and your risk control consultant on building out a plan to implement and engage over time and be present with your customers, be present with your employees and really allows you to have a robust risk management platform that mitigates risks and really is thoughtful also in that process.

MG: Yeah, I appreciate that. And yeah, I really like the way that you've introduced presence within it, you know, especially in relation to the, you know, the DOS analysis of being able to introduce everybody to it, have presence, an ongoing presence and prioritization. When you bring these elements together, it can really impact the risk control of the business to allow them to focus on, again, what, like you said, their job is, it's building, it's construction, rather than having to worry about losing guys in the field or really dealing with the damage, the fallout of when things go wrong. You've continued to amaze with what you have to share, and I know that I'm going to continue to learn from you, just giving your vast experience and everything. Any other wisdom that you want to share with us before we wrap up?

GC: Partner with your insurance partners, partner with your carrier, partner with your producer and your agent at Rancho Mesa because you've got a lot of collaboration and a lot of expertise available to you. Don't be afraid to use it, that's what we're here for and it will really make the industry better as a whole, but also will improve your business, is a good way to look at it.

MG: Fantastic. I'm going to call it wisdom because the reality is insurance is, it's a difficult product for a lot of people to really wrap their head around because it's not tangible. It's not something you can touch and feel and it's feels like it's the same for a lot until you need it. But the reality is with carriers that are looking to invest in businesses, there's a lot more that they can bring to the table. And you don't have to wait till something goes wrong to find out what that value is.

GC: No, you're really looking for that partner that partnership and it and it grows across the whole spectrum that partnership so that's what you're looking for. Someone told me years ago, and I think it's appropriate for when we talk about mechanical contractors and such said, you know, “You can have a house and you can have a home you know so your insurance is a little bit like the HVAC system in your house; you don't have to have it, but it will make you a lot more comfortable with it.”

MG: Yeah, that's a good point. So, Gary, thanks for joining me in StudioOne. I really enjoyed getting to hear what you had to say, and just looking forward to continuing the conversation.

GC: Oh, thank you, it was great. I appreciate it, and I look forward to the next time.

MG: Thanks for tuning in to our latest episode produced by StudioOne. If you enjoyed what you heard, please share this episode and subscribe. For more insights like this, visit us at RanchoMesa.com and subscribe to our weekly newsletter.